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UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 47929620
United States
04/02/2014 07:56 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


GPU berkutivtsiv arrested on suspicion of shootings on the Square

As UNIAN reported in the GPU currently ongoing questioning six other employees of the unit, which will also be served notice of suspicion.

In the morning scheduled to question 4 more fighters "Berkut", which according to available information may be involved in the killing of people on the square.

[link to www.unian.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44141008


Order shoot protesters gave Yanukovych - GPU

This UNIAN reported the press service of the GPU, citing the words of Acting Attorney General Oleg Mahnitskoho.

As reported in the press service, now revealed that the protesters "worked" special squad officers "Berkut" that since the establishment of the Special Forces (1992 - UNIAN), and authorities were able to use firearms, including automatic and sniper rifles.

As reported by the GPU, the investigation revealed that aimed fire from a sniper rifle SCS (self-loading carbine Simonov - UNIAN) was carried out with the hotel "Ukraine".

Regarding the presence of snipers in other buildings, including the October Palace Hotel "Cossack" House of Trade Unions, the data are checked.

Also, the prosecutor's office noted that among several employees "Golden Eagle", was detained detached unit, which is subordinate to perform tasks with the use of firearms to defeat.

However, the Office noted that the current verified information about a possible engagement and involvement in the shooting on Independence fighters Ukrainian special forces of other law enforcement agencies, including fighters, "Alpha", which are part of the SBU.

The press service said that the employees of the GPU had to rebuild the whole picture and the circumstances related to shooting people in the center of Kyiv, as all documents and other material evidence base was destroyed prior kerivnytstvomvom Prosecutor General. The investigation continues.

[link to www.unian.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44141008


The medical examiners who said the bullets extracted from police and protesters were the same. Did that "evidence" get destroyed conveniently as well? Further the hotel was occupied by Right Sector guys.

I hope Russia reveals some of their intelligence which Embassy it was that had regular meetings with them. Somehow I have this nagging feeling that would help "rebuild the whole picture" for our friends there in Kiev!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37539282


No doubt Russia, and others, have evidence that does not corroborate with the prosecutor generals findings.

This will come out at a time of their choosing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44141008


The question is the quality of Russia's counter-evidence. Since Lavrov has already hinted at it we might see something quite stunning emerge. Certainly the Maidan protests were an obvious powderkeg for months by the time the shootings occurred. That means that Russia had plenty of lead time to monitor, place cameras, infiltrate and otherwise document what was really happening in a rather transparent western operation to change the government.

At some point it became spy vs spy vs spy but the question is whether the other spies realized it. Personally, I am reluctant to be convinced by anybody's "evidence" when so many agendas are in play. I just don't think the Russians are bluffing on this one. We will find out soon enough.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:01 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I couldn't open the link, but my guess is you are referring to this?

[link to www.nato.int]

First time I read it and I would say, that's an "issue" alright for Russia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37539282


Apologies. Maybe a copy and paste will take you to the document. After cut and paste, click on "open document".

NATO Force Planning Without the Soviet Threat
previous July,' was the problem that the Declaration posed for NATO force planning realized. ... as a result of the CFE sufficiency rules, NATO's ... sons to be concerned about instability and conflict outside the NATO area, Spring 1992 35 .
dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA528180
 Quoting: pool


Thank you
after reading about half, I brought out the Vodka! This is intriguing to say the least.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 56373635
Russia
04/02/2014 08:07 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Obama and Biden will discuss with Congressional leaders the situation in Ukraine

03:42 03.04.2014

The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

WASHINGTON, Apr 3-RIA Novosti. United States President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday will meet with Congressional leaders from both parties to discuss the situation in Ukraine, the White House said.

Obama also will tell lawmakers on the outcome of his visit to Europe. The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

[link to ria.ru]
kent
User ID: 56365946
Germany
04/02/2014 08:09 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
So, which ones of you are alflonians by heart and who isn't I wonder??

Judge for yourself and take the test. (not for beginners).

[link to www.telemarksporten.no]

Take care
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 37539282
United States
04/02/2014 08:13 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I couldn't open the link, but my guess is you are referring to this?

[link to www.nato.int]

First time I read it and I would say, that's an "issue" alright for Russia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37539282


Apologies. Maybe a copy and paste will take you to the document. After cut and paste, click on "open document".

NATO Force Planning Without the Soviet Threat
previous July,' was the problem that the Declaration posed for NATO force planning realized. ... as a result of the CFE sufficiency rules, NATO's ... sons to be concerned about instability and conflict outside the NATO area, Spring 1992 35 .
dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA528180
 Quoting: pool


Thank you
after reading about half, I brought out the Vodka! This is intriguing to say the least.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37539282


Page 34 explains also Syria, Iran and Iraq!!!!!!!
NATO Force posture

This is excellent!! Thanks so much pool
BattlesightZero

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04/02/2014 08:15 PM
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The question is the quality of Russia's counter-evidence. Since Lavrov has already hinted at it we might see something quite stunning emerge. Certainly the Maidan protests were an obvious powderkeg for months by the time the shootings occurred. That means that Russia had plenty of lead time to monitor, place cameras, infiltrate and otherwise document what was really happening in a rather transparent western operation to change the government.

At some point it became spy vs spy vs spy but the question is whether the other spies realized it. Personally, I am reluctant to be convinced by anybody's "evidence" when so many agendas are in play. I just don't think the Russians are bluffing on this one. We will find out soon enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47929620


^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ guy gets it. Chess game within a chess game here, folks.

The easy and obvious "answers" are all decoys, carefully placed to manage your perspective, and keep you from finding the path to the real and underlying truth.

It is being done by all sides (and there are more than two, here).
BattlesightZero

YOU, and only YOU are responsible for maintaining the balance of power between you and the rest of the semi-sentient beings in this world. You cannot disclaim or delegate that responsibility; it is a function of being a living, breathing "adult" in this world. If you can't manage yourself on those terms, someone else *will* manage you on their terms. Your terms are irrelevant. Buy a rifle; prepare to defend yourself. If you don't, what happens is *your* fault. Period.
Newshunter

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04/02/2014 08:16 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Obama and Biden will discuss with Congressional leaders the situation in Ukraine

03:42 03.04.2014

The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

WASHINGTON, Apr 3-RIA Novosti. United States President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday will meet with Congressional leaders from both parties to discuss the situation in Ukraine, the White House said.

Obama also will tell lawmakers on the outcome of his visit to Europe. The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

[link to ria.ru]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56373635


That's unusual
Doom Master

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04/02/2014 08:20 PM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Obama and Biden will discuss with Congressional leaders the situation in Ukraine

03:42 03.04.2014

The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

WASHINGTON, Apr 3-RIA Novosti. United States President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday will meet with Congressional leaders from both parties to discuss the situation in Ukraine, the White House said.

Obama also will tell lawmakers on the outcome of his visit to Europe. The meeting will take place in the evening in the Oval Office of the White House and will be closed to the press.

[link to ria.ru]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56373635


This bears watching, not a usual thing to joint brief unless they are considering seeking congressional authorization for something.....
Ever closer to darkness we ride relentless hell hounds by our side....

....I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hellfire was following close behind him......


Just keeping the score.....
Kent
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04/02/2014 08:24 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The question is the quality of Russia's counter-evidence. Since Lavrov has already hinted at it we might see something quite stunning emerge. Certainly the Maidan protests were an obvious powderkeg for months by the time the shootings occurred. That means that Russia had plenty of lead time to monitor, place cameras, infiltrate and otherwise document what was really happening in a rather transparent western operation to change the government.

At some point it became spy vs spy vs spy but the question is whether the other spies realized it. Personally, I am reluctant to be convinced by anybody's "evidence" when so many agendas are in play. I just don't think the Russians are bluffing on this one. We will find out soon enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47929620


^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ guy gets it. Chess game within a chess game here, folks.

"The easy and obvious "answers" are all decoys, carefully placed to manage your perspective, and keep you from finding the path to the real and underlying truth."

It is being done by all sides (and there are more than two, here).
 Quoting: BattlesightZero


You are on to something here, please continue your quest, as there are more.

Take care
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:25 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Pentagon: U.S. suspended consultations with Russia on missile defense because of the situation around Ukraine

International Panorama April 3, four fifteen UTC +4

WASHINGTON, April 3. / Correspondent. ITAR-TASS Ivan Lebedev /. The United States suspended consultations with Russia on missile defense in respect of the situation in Ukraine. This was reported at a congressional hearing, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Elaine Bunn, in his department oversees defense issues.

"Russia's intervention in the crisis in Ukraine in violation of international law led to the suspension of our dialogue in the military field, and we did not continue cooperation with Russia on missile defense," - she said, speaking before the Senate Committee on Armed Services. According to her, the Pentagon intends to re-examine the question of the "future of the ABM contacts" with Russia, "to make sure that they comply with U.S. national security interests and their allies."

Bunn said that the Obama administration has sought to cooperate with Russia on missile defense as it could strengthen the defense capabilities of the two countries. In addition, it was necessary to ensure that this problem "ceased to be a source of irritation in the bilateral relations."

Thus, the United States made it clear that "will not agree to any restrictions on its missile defense," said Deputy Assistant Secretary. Deployment of a missile defense system in Europe will go so that "Russia will have no control and monitoring capabilities for missile defense of NATO territory," says Bunn.

She reported that Washington gave Moscow a number of proposals, provides, inter alia, the establishment of centers of cooperation on missile defense in Europe and promoting the exchange of information on national programs in this area.

"During the bilateral dialogue, we have consistently rejected attempts to establish any restrictions on our defense. Our missile defense system in Europe is aimed against regional ballistic missile threats posed by Iran and Syria, and can not be subject to the limitations of a third party" - said Bunn.

Deputy Assistant Secretary also said that the expansion of the national missile defense the United States, as well as the deployment of regional missile defense systems in Europe, Asia Pacific and the Middle East is going to plan. This is also confirmed by speaking at a Congressional hearing the head of the Pentagon Missile Defense Agency, Vice Admiral James Searing.

Both military officials also noted that due to the situation around Ukraine and Russia's actions continue to discuss the United States and its allies could be further strengthened NATO and strengthening European security. However, judging by their words, any changes to the U.S. plans for missile defense is not yet foreseen.

[link to itar-tass.com]
Sun_dancer

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thanks!

So Oleg Mahnitskoho is from Svoboda, which is one of the groups being suspected of organizing the snipers.

He has laid the blame on Berkut officers shooting from "Hotel Ukraine". This hotel was seized the day of/before the shootings by "protesters" - [link to en.itar-tass.com] , [link to rt.com] . So this seems a bit strange.

Not clear what it means "data are checked" re: October Palace Hotel and Trade Union Building ... The Trade Union Building had been occupied by "protesters" but suffered heavy fire damage prior on Feb. 18-19. (Funny, checked Wikipedia, the propagandists actively trying to control the conversation there - and I speak from experience - claim the building "completely burned down" - [link to en.wikipedia.org] - boy they are quite stupid). In any event it is an unlikely place for Berkut to go as it is in the center of where all the people were massed and was occupied for months by protesters.

As to "October Palace Hotel" it is not a hotel but a "palace" of sorts. This was also seized by protesters (in December 2013). [link to www.themoscowtimes.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


False, and comically so. Both the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel were contolled by gov forces from the storming of the maidan by police and Berkut on the 18th to the maidan's counterattack against them on the 20th. They had pushed euromaidan back onto half of the maidan those days. The half they had taken over were the areas of and below the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel. The gov forces were controlling both of the locales during those two days. This is common knowledge and provable by 100s of hours of video from numerous sources those days. Where were you during all of this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

So I have watched very many videos; I have also provided support for my claims of who controlled what. You have raised a fair point, which I will address, but given my time limitations, I will focus only on October Palace.

The protesters evacuated City Hall on February 17, 2014, as part of a deal which saw arrested protesters being released and pardoned. They then took up residency in the October Palace, which had already been occupied for several months. [link to www.taipeitimes.com] [link to www.rappler.com]

In the Feb. 18-19 timeframe, the Berkut stormed the Trade Union building and the October Palace, as you correctly stated. [link to www.odfoundation.eu]

But we know these protesters don't just give up when they lose a battle.

So on the morning of Feb. 20, before the shooting commenced, we have reports that the protesters re-occupied the October Palace. See e.g. [link to news.pn] (at 9:20 am, "At present protesters took a position on Intitutskaya Street which they occupied earlier. Also protesters occupied the October palace.").

See also photo of protesters occupying October Palace on Feb. 20 at [link to www.theatlantic.com] (Photo 27: "A hall of the October Palace theatre, during clashes between anti-government protesters and riot police in Kiev, on February 20, 2014. (Reuters/Konstantin Chernichkin)").

See also [link to www.unian.net] which report was filed at 9:28 am on the morning in question, before the shooting started ("As UNIAN reported earlier today about 9.00 protesters went on the offensive in law enforcement organized columns. Protesters occupied the October Palace.").

By the way, I realize early in the morning of Feb. 20 (before the killing began) there were Berkut forces outside the October Palace, shooting at times pepper or similar non-lethal ammunition at protesters - but we are speaking about inside the building.

By the way, I don't even know if the coup prosecutor is alleging anyone fired from these buildings, the translation is quite opaque on that point - just considering the facts of who was occupying them. Do you know exactly what Oleh said about them?
Sun_dancer
Kent
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04/02/2014 08:29 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The question is the quality of Russia's counter-evidence. Since Lavrov has already hinted at it we might see something quite stunning emerge. Certainly the Maidan protests were an obvious powderkeg for months by the time the shootings occurred. That means that Russia had plenty of lead time to monitor, place cameras, infiltrate and otherwise document what was really happening in a rather transparent western operation to change the government.

At some point it became spy vs spy vs spy but the question is whether the other spies realized it. Personally, I am reluctant to be convinced by anybody's "evidence" when so many agendas are in play. I just don't think the Russians are bluffing on this one. We will find out soon enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47929620


^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ guy gets it. Chess game within a chess game here, folks.

"The easy and obvious "answers" are all decoys, carefully placed to manage your perspective, and keep you from finding the path to the real and underlying truth."

It is being done by all sides (and there are more than two, here).
 Quoting: BattlesightZero


You are on to something here, please continue your quest, as there are more.

Take care
 Quoting: Kent 56365946


Use this, whenever you want.

[link to telemarksporten.no]

Take care
Newshunter

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04/02/2014 08:30 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Juli Lugovska ‏@asya_lugovska 3h
#Ukrainian General Prosecution reported about arrest of 9 suspects
in killing #Euromaidan protesters.




Juli Lugovska ‏@asya_lugovska 3h
#Ukraine: #SBU and Ministry of Interior have also arrested three soldiers
of #Berkut suspected in killing people on #Maidan.
Newshunter

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Missilito ‏@Missilito · 2h
Russian-French project to create heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) "Atom" suspended due to situation in Ukraine. [link to ria.ru] …
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:39 PM
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Missilito ‏@Missilito · 2h
Russian-French project to create heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) "Atom" suspended due to situation in Ukraine. [link to ria.ru] …
 Quoting: Newshunter


Notice that the sanctions have not stopped ramping up. This tells me that Putin's waiting and negotiating could be being taken for weakness. Not sure. Russia is not seeing the slightest diplomatic opening.
Kent
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04/02/2014 08:40 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
So, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Yes they do. Here on Gods Lonely Planet we all do, all of the time, right??

Take care
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:41 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thanks!

So Oleg Mahnitskoho is from Svoboda, which is one of the groups being suspected of organizing the snipers.

He has laid the blame on Berkut officers shooting from "Hotel Ukraine". This hotel was seized the day of/before the shootings by "protesters" - [link to en.itar-tass.com] , [link to rt.com] . So this seems a bit strange.

Not clear what it means "data are checked" re: October Palace Hotel and Trade Union Building ... The Trade Union Building had been occupied by "protesters" but suffered heavy fire damage prior on Feb. 18-19. (Funny, checked Wikipedia, the propagandists actively trying to control the conversation there - and I speak from experience - claim the building "completely burned down" - [link to en.wikipedia.org] - boy they are quite stupid). In any event it is an unlikely place for Berkut to go as it is in the center of where all the people were massed and was occupied for months by protesters.

As to "October Palace Hotel" it is not a hotel but a "palace" of sorts. This was also seized by protesters (in December 2013). [link to www.themoscowtimes.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


False, and comically so. Both the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel were contolled by gov forces from the storming of the maidan by police and Berkut on the 18th to the maidan's counterattack against them on the 20th. They had pushed euromaidan back onto half of the maidan those days. The half they had taken over were the areas of and below the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel. The gov forces were controlling both of the locales during those two days. This is common knowledge and provable by 100s of hours of video from numerous sources those days. Where were you during all of this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

So I have watched very many videos; I have also provided support for my claims of who controlled what. You have raised a fair point, which I will address, but given my time limitations, I will focus only on October Palace.

The protesters evacuated City Hall on February 17, 2014, as part of a deal which saw arrested protesters being released and pardoned. They then took up residency in the October Palace, which had already been occupied for several months. [link to www.taipeitimes.com] [link to www.rappler.com]

In the Feb. 18-19 timeframe, the Berkut stormed the Trade Union building and the October Palace, as you correctly stated. [link to www.odfoundation.eu]

But we know these protesters don't just give up when they lose a battle.

So on the morning of Feb. 20, before the shooting commenced, we have reports that the protesters re-occupied the October Palace. See e.g. [link to news.pn] (at 9:20 am, "At present protesters took a position on Intitutskaya Street which they occupied earlier. Also protesters occupied the October palace.").

See also photo of protesters occupying October Palace on Feb. 20 at [link to www.theatlantic.com] (Photo 27: "A hall of the October Palace theatre, during clashes between anti-government protesters and riot police in Kiev, on February 20, 2014. (Reuters/Konstantin Chernichkin)").

See also [link to www.unian.net] which report was filed at 9:28 am on the morning in question, before the shooting started ("As UNIAN reported earlier today about 9.00 protesters went on the offensive in law enforcement organized columns. Protesters occupied the October Palace.").

By the way, I realize early in the morning of Feb. 20 (before the killing began) there were Berkut forces outside the October Palace, shooting at times pepper or similar non-lethal ammunition at protesters - but we are speaking about inside the building.

By the way, I don't even know if the coup prosecutor is alleging anyone fired from these buildings, the translation is quite opaque on that point - just considering the facts of who was occupying them. Do you know exactly what Oleh said about them?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


GPU arrested nine suspects in the shooting of activists Maidana (Updated)

Acting. Prosecutor General Oleg Mahnitsky said that in the case of the shooting of activists Maidana 18-20 February 2014 security forces arrested nine suspects.

According to the GPU of the detainees - the team leader snipers. All the detained suspects - employees of Kiev "Berkut", reports LIGABusinessInform citing "Channel 5".

With suspects held investigations and checked on a polygraph. According to the investigation, under the investigation of the killings of demonstrators in central Kiev investigators interviewed 30,000 law enforcement officers who have served in the capital on February 18-20.

In addition, as reported by the GPU, the investigation established that aimed fire from a sniper rifle SCS (self-loading carbine Simonov) was carried out of the hotel "Ukraine". As regards the existence of snipers in other buildings, notably the October Palace Hotel "Cossack", the House of Trade Unions, the data is checked, reports UNIAN .

The prosecutor's office also noted that several employees of "Berkut" detained commander of the detachment, subordinates who carry out tasks for the application to fail firearms.

At the same time, the Office noted that now verified information about the possible involvement and participation in the shooting on Independence Ukrainian special forces soldiers of other law enforcement agencies, in particular fighters, "Alpha", which are part of the SBU.

The press service noted that workers had to rebuild the GPU the whole picture and the circumstances related to the shooting of people in the center of Kiev, as all documents and other material evidence base had been destroyed the previous leadership of the Prosecutor General. The investigation is continuing.

As reported by the agency in the near future expect troops detain other suspects in the shooting of maydanovtsev.

[link to lb.ua]
Doom Master

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04/02/2014 08:41 PM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Missilito ‏@Missilito · 2h
Russian-French project to create heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) "Atom" suspended due to situation in Ukraine. [link to ria.ru] …
 Quoting: Newshunter


Notice that the sanctions have not stopped ramping up. This tells me that Putin's waiting and negotiating could be being taken for weakness. Not sure. Russia is not seeing the slightest diplomatic opening.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47929620


True but as I see it, the more the sanctions pile on the sooner it gets to a point of no return. Putin will be backed into a tight corner and will have to act or face being deposed himself.
Ever closer to darkness we ride relentless hell hounds by our side....

....I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hellfire was following close behind him......


Just keeping the score.....
Spine monkey

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Foreign Policy @ForeignPolicy
Kerry pledges U.S. help in weaning Ukraine, and Europe, off Russian energy. @KFJ_FP reports: [link to atfp.co]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


HOW???

tantrum
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7901784


Fracking, shale oil, Libyan oil, more Saudi production, blah blah blah. The Russians could then say, fine, okay, we'll just sell it all to the Chinese.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:47 PM
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Missilito ‏@Missilito · 2h
Russian-French project to create heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) "Atom" suspended due to situation in Ukraine. [link to ria.ru] …
 Quoting: Newshunter


Notice that the sanctions have not stopped ramping up. This tells me that Putin's waiting and negotiating could be being taken for weakness. Not sure. Russia is not seeing the slightest diplomatic opening.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47929620


True but as I see it, the more the sanctions pile on the sooner it gets to a point of no return. Putin will be backed into a tight corner and will have to act or face being deposed himself.
 Quoting: Doom Master


Sanctions lose their value as a deterrent if it looks like they are going to keep coming anyway. If that is what the west wants they can continue to find a pretext. I am not endorsing the strategy, just commenting. Frankly, it worries me.
Sun_dancer

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04/02/2014 08:47 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thanks!

So Oleg Mahnitskoho is from Svoboda, which is one of the groups being suspected of organizing the snipers.

He has laid the blame on Berkut officers shooting from "Hotel Ukraine". This hotel was seized the day of/before the shootings by "protesters" - [link to en.itar-tass.com] , [link to rt.com] . So this seems a bit strange.

Not clear what it means "data are checked" re: October Palace Hotel and Trade Union Building ... The Trade Union Building had been occupied by "protesters" but suffered heavy fire damage prior on Feb. 18-19. (Funny, checked Wikipedia, the propagandists actively trying to control the conversation there - and I speak from experience - claim the building "completely burned down" - [link to en.wikipedia.org] - boy they are quite stupid). In any event it is an unlikely place for Berkut to go as it is in the center of where all the people were massed and was occupied for months by protesters.

As to "October Palace Hotel" it is not a hotel but a "palace" of sorts. This was also seized by protesters (in December 2013). [link to www.themoscowtimes.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


False, and comically so. Both the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel were contolled by gov forces from the storming of the maidan by police and Berkut on the 18th to the maidan's counterattack against them on the 20th. They had pushed euromaidan back onto half of the maidan those days. The half they had taken over were the areas of and below the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel. The gov forces were controlling both of the locales during those two days. This is common knowledge and provable by 100s of hours of video from numerous sources those days. Where were you during all of this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

So I have watched very many videos; I have also provided support for my claims of who controlled what. You have raised a fair point, which I will address, but given my time limitations, I will focus only on October Palace.

The protesters evacuated City Hall on February 17, 2014, as part of a deal which saw arrested protesters being released and pardoned. They then took up residency in the October Palace, which had already been occupied for several months. [link to www.taipeitimes.com] [link to www.rappler.com]

In the Feb. 18-19 timeframe, the Berkut stormed the Trade Union building and the October Palace, as you correctly stated. [link to www.odfoundation.eu]

But we know these protesters don't just give up when they lose a battle.

So on the morning of Feb. 20, before the shooting commenced, we have reports that the protesters re-occupied the October Palace. See e.g. [link to news.pn] (at 9:20 am, "At present protesters took a position on Intitutskaya Street which they occupied earlier. Also protesters occupied the October palace.").

See also photo of protesters occupying October Palace on Feb. 20 at [link to www.theatlantic.com] (Photo 27: "A hall of the October Palace theatre, during clashes between anti-government protesters and riot police in Kiev, on February 20, 2014. (Reuters/Konstantin Chernichkin)").

See also [link to www.unian.net] which report was filed at 9:28 am on the morning in question, before the shooting started ("As UNIAN reported earlier today about 9.00 protesters went on the offensive in law enforcement organized columns. Protesters occupied the October Palace.").

By the way, I realize early in the morning of Feb. 20 (before the killing began) there were Berkut forces outside the October Palace, shooting at times pepper or similar non-lethal ammunition at protesters - but we are speaking about inside the building.

By the way, I don't even know if the coup prosecutor is alleging anyone fired from these buildings, the translation is quite opaque on that point - just considering the facts of who was occupying them. Do you know exactly what Oleh said about them?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

...

In addition, as reported by the GPU, the investigation established that aimed fire from a sniper rifle SCS (self-loading carbine Simonov) was carried out of the hotel "Ukraine". As regards the existence of snipers in other buildings, notably the October Palace Hotel "Cossack", the House of Trade Unions, the data is checked, reports UNIAN .

...

[link to lb.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56374216

The highlighted text - my translation is that the data is "validated", not "checked" - i.e., that he is claiming fire came from October Palace as well.

I do recall from the videos, in the morning, there were some Berkut in front of October Palace firing non-lethal rounds at protesters, but they were chased away (and the October Palace occupied by protesters) before the (lethal) shooting started.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/02/2014 08:47 PM
Sun_dancer
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Southern European countries - Italy, Spain, Greece simplify visa regime for Russians . It is about reducing the term paperwork and increase visa validity.

"Slovakia is already giving visas for 5 years, Greece, Spain, Italy without any problems pose a long-term, multiple-entry visa within 48 hours. These EU countries can increase the flow of Russian tourists to 50 percent," - said in an interview with "RG" Vice President Russian Union of Travel Industry Yuri Barzykin.

To the list of countries who are loyal to the Russians, and joins Bulgaria. In the near future Russia will open four consulates, Ambassador of Bulgaria in Russia Boyko Kotsev.

"We plan to expedite the issuance of visas. I think we can do it in 2-3 days." In 2013, Bulgaria visited 700,000 Russians. In the embassy hopes that this year their number will increase by 15-20 percent. And that's not counting 450,000 Russian citizens owning real estate in Bulgaria.

Henceforth, Russians will be without a visa for 30 days and the happiest country in the world - Costa Rica - a country in Central America, bordered by the Pacific Ocean and Caribbean Sea. International happiness index was proposed by the International Foundation for the New Economy (NEF) in 2006. The basis of its calculation shall not even income levels, and subjective satisfaction, life expectancy and the environment.

[link to www.rg.ru]
Kent
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
After more than 2000 pages, (and I have read them all), all concentrated efforts are still on the trees??

Think about it. Each of the trees can indeed be a beautiful specimen/object for studying.

It is still part of a forest though.

The Devil is indeed in the details, and that is exactly why we should avoid them as much as possible.

I am speaking to a lot of deaf ears here, I know that. It's ok with me, passing by that's all.

Take care
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 08:55 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thanks!

So Oleg Mahnitskoho is from Svoboda, which is one of the groups being suspected of organizing the snipers.

He has laid the blame on Berkut officers shooting from "Hotel Ukraine". This hotel was seized the day of/before the shootings by "protesters" - [link to en.itar-tass.com] , [link to rt.com] . So this seems a bit strange.

Not clear what it means "data are checked" re: October Palace Hotel and Trade Union Building ... The Trade Union Building had been occupied by "protesters" but suffered heavy fire damage prior on Feb. 18-19. (Funny, checked Wikipedia, the propagandists actively trying to control the conversation there - and I speak from experience - claim the building "completely burned down" - [link to en.wikipedia.org] - boy they are quite stupid). In any event it is an unlikely place for Berkut to go as it is in the center of where all the people were massed and was occupied for months by protesters.

As to "October Palace Hotel" it is not a hotel but a "palace" of sorts. This was also seized by protesters (in December 2013). [link to www.themoscowtimes.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


False, and comically so. Both the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel were contolled by gov forces from the storming of the maidan by police and Berkut on the 18th to the maidan's counterattack against them on the 20th. They had pushed euromaidan back onto half of the maidan those days. The half they had taken over were the areas of and below the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel. The gov forces were controlling both of the locales during those two days. This is common knowledge and provable by 100s of hours of video from numerous sources those days. Where were you during all of this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

So I have watched very many videos; I have also provided support for my claims of who controlled what. You have raised a fair point, which I will address, but given my time limitations, I will focus only on October Palace.

The protesters evacuated City Hall on February 17, 2014, as part of a deal which saw arrested protesters being released and pardoned. They then took up residency in the October Palace, which had already been occupied for several months. [link to www.taipeitimes.com] [link to www.rappler.com]

In the Feb. 18-19 timeframe, the Berkut stormed the Trade Union building and the October Palace, as you correctly stated. [link to www.odfoundation.eu]

But we know these protesters don't just give up when they lose a battle.

So on the morning of Feb. 20, before the shooting commenced, we have reports that the protesters re-occupied the October Palace. See e.g. [link to news.pn] (at 9:20 am, "At present protesters took a position on Intitutskaya Street which they occupied earlier. Also protesters occupied the October palace.").

See also photo of protesters occupying October Palace on Feb. 20 at [link to www.theatlantic.com] (Photo 27: "A hall of the October Palace theatre, during clashes between anti-government protesters and riot police in Kiev, on February 20, 2014. (Reuters/Konstantin Chernichkin)").

See also [link to www.unian.net] which report was filed at 9:28 am on the morning in question, before the shooting started ("As UNIAN reported earlier today about 9.00 protesters went on the offensive in law enforcement organized columns. Protesters occupied the October Palace.").

By the way, I realize early in the morning of Feb. 20 (before the killing began) there were Berkut forces outside the October Palace, shooting at times pepper or similar non-lethal ammunition at protesters - but we are speaking about inside the building.

By the way, I don't even know if the coup prosecutor is alleging anyone fired from these buildings, the translation is quite opaque on that point - just considering the facts of who was occupying them. Do you know exactly what Oleh said about them?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Again, you are absurdly arguing against the very common knowledge and much evidence from those days that the police had taken October Palace during their mass storming of the maidan on the 18th...

[link to www.odfoundation.eu]
"Buildings of the October Palace and the Ukrainian House were taken by storm, too."


[link to www.osw.waw.pl]
"The main Self-Defence force was pushed in the opposite direction from the Maidan and scattered. The security forces then occupied the barricades around European Square and Hrushevsky & Instytutska Streets, encountering hardly any resistance. The October Palace, which overlooks the Maidan, was also occupied. These actions came as a complete surprise to those directing the protests, and from the speeches of the opposition leaders (who arrived at the Maidan just after these events, having come from the parliament building), there appears to have been much confusion, and even panic."


and no the police did not just shoot non-lethal ammo from October palace grounds. They were using AK-74's plainly shown in video.
[link to www.youtube.com]

These were the same police who then moved from October Palace grounds up Instytutska street and shot many more protestors from there.

Before you make anymore false statements, get your facts stright.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 09:00 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


False, and comically so. Both the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel were contolled by gov forces from the storming of the maidan by police and Berkut on the 18th to the maidan's counterattack against them on the 20th. They had pushed euromaidan back onto half of the maidan those days. The half they had taken over were the areas of and below the October Palace and the Ukraine Hotel. The gov forces were controlling both of the locales during those two days. This is common knowledge and provable by 100s of hours of video from numerous sources those days. Where were you during all of this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

So I have watched very many videos; I have also provided support for my claims of who controlled what. You have raised a fair point, which I will address, but given my time limitations, I will focus only on October Palace.

The protesters evacuated City Hall on February 17, 2014, as part of a deal which saw arrested protesters being released and pardoned. They then took up residency in the October Palace, which had already been occupied for several months. [link to www.taipeitimes.com] [link to www.rappler.com]

In the Feb. 18-19 timeframe, the Berkut stormed the Trade Union building and the October Palace, as you correctly stated. [link to www.odfoundation.eu]

But we know these protesters don't just give up when they lose a battle.

So on the morning of Feb. 20, before the shooting commenced, we have reports that the protesters re-occupied the October Palace. See e.g. [link to news.pn] (at 9:20 am, "At present protesters took a position on Intitutskaya Street which they occupied earlier. Also protesters occupied the October palace.").

See also photo of protesters occupying October Palace on Feb. 20 at [link to www.theatlantic.com] (Photo 27: "A hall of the October Palace theatre, during clashes between anti-government protesters and riot police in Kiev, on February 20, 2014. (Reuters/Konstantin Chernichkin)").

See also [link to www.unian.net] which report was filed at 9:28 am on the morning in question, before the shooting started ("As UNIAN reported earlier today about 9.00 protesters went on the offensive in law enforcement organized columns. Protesters occupied the October Palace.").

By the way, I realize early in the morning of Feb. 20 (before the killing began) there were Berkut forces outside the October Palace, shooting at times pepper or similar non-lethal ammunition at protesters - but we are speaking about inside the building.

By the way, I don't even know if the coup prosecutor is alleging anyone fired from these buildings, the translation is quite opaque on that point - just considering the facts of who was occupying them. Do you know exactly what Oleh said about them?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

...

In addition, as reported by the GPU, the investigation established that aimed fire from a sniper rifle SCS (self-loading carbine Simonov) was carried out of the hotel "Ukraine". As regards the existence of snipers in other buildings, notably the October Palace Hotel "Cossack", the House of Trade Unions, the data is checked, reports UNIAN .

...

[link to lb.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56374216

The highlighted text - my translation is that the data is "validated", not "checked" - i.e., that he is claiming fire came from October Palace as well.

I do recall from the videos, in the morning, there were some Berkut in front of October Palace firing non-lethal rounds at protesters, but they were chased away (and the October Palace occupied by protesters) before the (lethal) shooting started.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Videos also showed the sniper fire came from the hotel building on an upper floor. And at that time it was occupied by the Opposition.
Kent
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04/02/2014 09:05 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
How many posters is still here, let's say from the first 1000 pages, and why are they gone?

Who are the newcomers??

Think about it?

Take care
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2014 09:24 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
excellent videos plainly showing the shooters on Feb 20th:

1) [link to www.youtube.com]




2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):

[link to www.youtube.com]
(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)
and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Kent
User ID: 56365946
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04/02/2014 09:31 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
excellent videos plainly showing the shooters on Feb 20th:

1) [link to www.youtube.com]




2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):

[link to www.youtube.com]
(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)
and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


These are very good videos, and as always, if it is not embedded, a lot of people do not watch., so here you go then:



Take care
Kent
User ID: 56365946
Germany
04/02/2014 09:33 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
excellent videos plainly showing the shooters on Feb 20th:

1) [link to www.youtube.com]




2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):

[link to www.youtube.com]
(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)
and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


These are very good videos, and as always, if it is not embedded, a lot of people do not watch., so here you go then:



Take care
 Quoting: Kent 56365946


Sorry forgot the other one (on purpose)

Here:



Take care
Kent
User ID: 56365946
Germany
04/02/2014 09:46 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
excellent videos plainly showing the shooters on Feb 20th:

1) [link to www.youtube.com]




2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):

[link to www.youtube.com]
(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)
and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


These are very good videos, and as always, if it is not embedded, a lot of people do not watch., so here you go then:



Take care
 Quoting: Kent 56365946


Sorry forgot the other one (on purpose)

Here:



Take care
 Quoting: Kent 56365946


Third one.

It is very easy to embed videos on this forum.
However, each individual has to figure out by him/herself how to do it. Otherwise we would have a complete chaos here with thousands of kids embedding videos completely out of context and overwhelming moderators with tasks they are not prepared for and able to cope with.

So, one more.



Take care
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